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Suggestion [Discussion] Potential Gag Reworkings - How would you re-balance them?

Discussion in 'Main Forum' started by Duck Tape, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. Duck Tape
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    Duck Tape Elite Toon
    KTTA ATTA Supporter TTR Beta Tester

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    It's been like a month since I came back to Toontown Rewritten and I've been thinking about this for a while now. The gags seem a tad bit unbalanced in my opinion. I'm not going to be talking about Lure, Throw or Squirt since I think those three are fairly balanced as is. This is gonna be half-suggestion, half-discussion.

    But firstly, here is how I see the gag tracks in toontown in class terms:
    Toon-up = Healing class
    Trap = Power/Support class (heavy damage; increases lure accuracy)
    Lure = Support class (deters cog attacks and administers a knockback bonus for throw and squirt)
    Sound = Support class (only gag that hits all cogs; enables support in picking off certain cog groups)
    Throw & Squirt = Generalist class (reliable direct damage; first two things you start out with)
    Drop = Power class (unreliable heavy damage)

    Two generalist classes, two support classes, two power classes, the oh-so common video game healing class, and Trap, the weird mixture of power class with supportive elements.

    Of course, If something like this were to ever realize fruition, it'd probably be spurned by TTR's playerbase. I have a suspicion that Toontown players, especially on Rewritten, generally loathe the idea of any kind of gag change. If such a change were to happen, here's what I'd personally suggest:

    Toon-up
    Toon-up is an overpowered healing class that you receive an abundance of. If one mistake is made, a single pair of juggling balls will bring the team back to full health. It doesn't matter how egregious it was. One juggling set, it's like the mistake never happened. I think the healing should nerfed with a slight blow on the carry capacity along with this. When do you ever go below two sets of juggling balls?

    Bamboo Cane
    Carry 5-7-10 (-34% carry capacity)
    -Keep healing the same

    Pixie Dust
    Carry 3-5 pixie dusts (-30% carry capacity)
    Heals 50-60 (-10 on toon-up)

    Juggling Balls
    Carry 2 sets of Juggle Balls (-33% carry capacity)
    Heals 60-90 (-30 on toon-up)
    Heals 45 to 2 other toons
    Heals 30 to 3 other toons
    Side note: TTR should consider renaming the gag itself to Juggling Set or Cubes. You can't say "ball" on toontown rewritten. They also aren't even balls and are, in fact, just cubes. What a grievous error on Disney's part.

    Sound
    I think TTR administered a previous "nerf" to sound by slightly decreasing the accuracy. That's not enough and will only make sound annoying to use. The missing mechanic of toontown is NOT suppose to pose a significant challenge, not for the most part at least. It absolutely won't mitigate the over-usage of Sound, either.

    Applying a nerf to sound has been debated ad nauseam, but I am now going to suggest something that I don't think anyone has ever suggested for Sound before. Remove the 20% damage bonus from group attacks. What this means is that the yellow group damage bonus will no longer be associated with sound.

    Consequence of this would be:
    • Can't use four elephant trunks to kill level 8 cogs (unless three are organic, but there's no chance of that)
    • Can't use two foghorns to kill level 9 cogs (unless they're organic)
    • Can't use an opera singer, 3 trunks to defeat level 11 cogs
    • Two foghorns, two trunks/aoogahs for level 10 cogs
    • Three foghorns, pretty-much-anything-that-isn't-bike-horn for level 11 cogs
    • Four foghorns for level 12 cogs, assuming all foghorns have maximum damage
    • Foghorns will be a requirement for assisting an opera singer in defeating level 12 cogs
    • This will likely kill all instances of the "1 Fog Rule"

    It may emphasize Sound being the weakest gag track in the game and may mitigate the sound spam and over-reliance problem that I've heard so many complaints about. Some people consider sound to be the "left click and win" no aim, no brain of the gag arsenal. You'll have to spend more foghorns to initiate such an overpowered tactic.

    A change that a few set people have proposed for sound was to simply apply trap's carry capacity onto sound. Downside to this one is that it would make sound even more of a pain to train since these gags take the most EXP points.

    "BUT THIS WILL MAKE ALL RUNS GO AT A SNAILS PACE"
    No. I'm pretty sure @That Soundless Horse finished an entirely soundless back nine in average time (56 minutes) and three consecutive bullion mints each in average time (~14 minutes). And even then, you still have sound to use. Unfortunately, an alarming amount of people in this game, especially in cashbot headquarters, lack basic game sense who then hinder most runs. That is where the over-reliability of Sound comes into play. Those players then develop a "sound is key" mentality that we've all seen at least once.

    Trap
    I think trap is underpowered in damage.
    Traps are made out to be the most powerful gags in all of toontown. In reality, they're pretty underwhelming. I don't think the carry capacity should be increased. I think that's actually one of the unique attributes of trap. Too bad this concept wasn't properly executed.

    "Because they are so powerful, you can't carry as many Trap gags as you can other types of gags."
    This was a quote from Disney's official Toontown player guide section. Trap is simply not strong enough to justify the low carry capacity. This is what I'm talking about when I said they were made out to be the most powerful gags in the whole game.

    Think about it - It is a power class that you get less of, requires more gags to use, unlures the cog to attack, gets no 20% damage bonus and can ruin additional knockback bonuses that would've done more. Sure, it increases lures accuracy a bit, but almost nobody in toontown seems to utilize that factor (or even know about it). I've seen a good amount of people who only carry TNTs exclusively and nothing else. It's no wonder why so many people go trapless. One may argue that trap gags have perfect accuracy; that is a lie. That is merely a distractor from the fact that trap is always dependent on lure - which tends to have low accuracy.

    Banana Peel
    16-18 Damage (+4 on damage)
    Just for the sake of not dealing the same damage as the Flower Pot

    Rake
    28-30 Damage (+10 on damage)

    Marbles
    40-45 Damage (+10 on damage)

    Quicksand
    65-70 Damage (+20 on damage)

    Trapdoor
    80-100 Damage (+30 on damage)
    Some would say that 100 damage on a level 5 gag would be overpowered. I don't think so, since you only get 5 of these at max and 3 at minimum. Considering the mechanics of the Trap track, the 70 damage on the trapdoor is just not enough in my opinion.

    TNT
    95-185 (+5 on damage)
    Increases to 203 when given the 10% organic bonus. This grants the capability of picking off level 12 cogs

    Railroad
    210 (+15 on damage)
    Takes out level 12 cogs regardless of being organic

    This may emphasize on trap being the most powerful track in toontown and may actually give people incentive on training it. Maybe trap should also have a mild "disorientation" accuracy bonus mechanic to help with cog-killing blows. While it also helps with lures accuracy, the disorientation would also help, not just drop, but any other gag. The accuracy bonus would assist in finishing the cog off. This would also give it qualities as a hefty support class to other gags.

    Drop
    Very slight buffs for drop to keep things in conjunction.

    Flower Pot
    12 Damage (+2 on damage)
    Grants it the capability of one-hitting a level 2 cog

    Sandbag
    20 Damage (+2 on damage)
    Grants it the capability of one-hitting a level 3 cog

    Big Weight
    55 Damage (+10 on damage)

    Safe
    70 Damage (+10 on damage)

    I think Sir Max said at one point that he wanted to make Toontown more challenging, while also keeping it as close to the original game as possible. This is one of those situations where you just can't have both. Big changes would have to be made. All of these were just my honest opinions and suggestions, the team can run the game however they want. If they want to keep the game as close to the original as possible, they have every right.

    So here's a discussion; Think these would be any good? How would you rework any of the gags in toontown in your own way? I'd like to hear what you'd do. Also, it isn't just restricted to standard gags. You can talk about doodle changes, SOS cards, unites, level 7's and whatnot.

    and that was my dissertation on the toontown combat system. i shall have this on professor pete's desk by monday morning.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 10, 2019 ---
    "It's '4 O'Clock in the morning, why on earth are you writing a toontown thread?"
    "Because I've lost control of my life"
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  2. That Soundless Horse
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    That Soundless Horse that pessimistic soundless horse TTR Beta Tester

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    Woah, it's been a while lol

    It's a bit above the average mark (not by a lot, only by like 5 or 6 minutes) might have a faster one if I check my hard drive later, but that run itself was without voice chat, eitherways. Mint wise yeah, average time on those is pretty accurate, soundless runs tend to go either right on or around 5 minutes of normal sound runs with people that know basic strategies.

    Toonup nerf is fairly accurate imo, specifically cubes and dust. Dust itself was only somewhat overpowered since you can carry 7 upon gaining cubes. That's 7 +70s to one person, a little powerful imo. Juggling Balls is a bit balanced in a run of 4, but the more toons you lose, the more you gain from group heals (hence why megaphone is a solid duo gag but an awful 4 toon gag in the earlier stages) and cubes reduction on health works as well.

    Glad I'm not the only one who thinks trap is underpowered. The only thing I'd add is removing the carrying cap from trap. Another server did it and made trap better.

    Drop buffs work, maybe give toontanic that original tnt damage to give organic drop an edge (still situational eitherways)
     
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